myles
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Posts: 44
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Post by myles on Dec 22, 2014 20:41:22 GMT
I was intrigued by the knives pictured on the YBS international site. So I actually made some, took me a while because I don't own half the tools required to make them. The ones with the handles anyway. I also made ones that are pictured that look a bit more like ones without handles. These were a touch easier for me to make. www.yinstylebaguazhang.com/antler_ordering.htmlThe two larger pictures at the top. Mine are not nearly as nice looking but they were not made by a professional craftsman, and they were my first attempt. Anyway, I think I understand the ones on the right, without the handles. Kind of like brass knuckles, a spike protruding from between the knuckles. I read that the knives are used by altering the empty hand forms and they they don't have their own "forms". I assumed as such that the ones without the handles could be used without altering the cutting strike forms and strikes from the lion system too much. I have practiced with them in this way a little. The ones with handles, from the pictures I've seen, seem to be used for trapping and point striking. I wonder if the phoenix cutting/stabbing strikes would be similarly transferable to the knives as the lion cutting strikes seem to be. I haven't trained phoenix more than a casual glancing and comparative manor (comparing chopping strikes between animals). Also as far as trapping, it would seem to me dragon capturing and moving strikes might also be altered to use the knives. Does anyone train with them that can offer any more concrete knowledge on their use?
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eric
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Posts: 27
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Post by eric on Dec 23, 2014 4:02:04 GMT
Myles,
The description already written on the link you posted is excellent, and while I cannot better it, I might be able to give you more information to help make sense of it.
Deer horns are far more badass than a brass knuckle with a spike. You can scale the pain somewhat with a deer horn depending on whether you seek to control or injure. You can stab them into an opponent, but you can also use them to apply pressure and press the opponent into submission. Agile wrists are essential, because when the opponent blocks an attack, the horns are then used to hook or trap the opponent's hand/wrist, before then stabbing in again. (There may be a little bit of entering involved as well as that is a skill of the wrist & elbow).
The horns are also meant to be used as a pair. You can have two horns of the same shape and hold them in the same direction, or you can hold them in opposite directions and the two horns can vary radically. The advantage about holding similar horns in the same direction is that it makes it easy for one's mind to train. The advantage about having horns of different shapes and holding them in different directions is that it is harder for an opponent to understand what is going on.
As different horns are shaped differently, they allow for different uses. While the one point with wooden handles are beautiful and a true pleasure to train with, I personally prefer if at least one of the two horns has 3-4 points or corners. This allows for 3-4 surfaces with which one can hook, stab and even bludgeon. Of these my favorite is probably the one you are referring to as the one with the spike protruding between the knuckles. One can use it to strike up, down, stab forward, hook with the bottom and hook with the front spike. Depending on horn & hand size, you could also keep all four fingers below the forward protruding spike, which would allow you to use the V surface against the opponent as well. You could even conceal the forward spike by extending your index finger over it. Alternatively, you could hold the horn reversed with the spike towards yourself for hooking or towards the opponent for stabbing. JB also mentioned that this horn type is good for stimulating/massaging one's hands while training (though if one trains for a longer session, one will likely be eager to switch this out with wooden handles again). The knives with wooden handles are also cool because one can grab at the handle or in the middle or the weapon, which would again facilitate different types of usage & development.
When training with deer horns, the horns become primary. So attacks are less about using the whole body to attack and more about using the whole body to assist the deer horns. Speed & fluidity become more important than power, because you are armed. As the horns are small, one need not have a radically different form as one would with a giant weapon. One can take any form and hold the horns any way one pleases. The catch is this, when you hold the horns and modify the form, you have to do so in a way that makes good martial sense. Each movement must be modified such that the horns are being used in an effective manner. The more points/corners on the horn, the more ways you hold the horns and the greater the disparity between the two horns, the harder this will be. Your best bet would be to spend time training with someone who has studied this with JB before. It's not rocket science; in some ways the horns are an extension and even a simplification of the empty hand, but without ever seeing how it is done, it could be extremely difficult to confidently train if it is just left to your imagination.
As a final note, the craftsman who made these is outstanding. While it may be tempting to make your own, you'll find that nothing really compares with the work he produces. Not only is he an excellent craftsman, but he spent time with He Jinbao carefully discussing, measuring and examining horns to determine the appropriate size & shape for martial application. I have a few of the horns he has crafted and I must say that they are a true pleasure to train with and indeed works of art.
Anyhow, I hope that helps!
- Eric
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myles
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Posts: 44
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Post by myles on Dec 23, 2014 21:45:32 GMT
I would definitely love to buy some of the professionally crafted knives at some point, both of the pictured variations are amazing looking. I mainly made mine to get the idea of and feel for if they are something I would be interested in training. That, and because I'm one broke son of a gun. Your explanation is quite thorough, and answers some questions I had as well as cleared up a few things. Thanks.
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