mattc
New Member
Posts: 20 
|
Post by mattc on Dec 3, 2014 0:48:31 GMT
Ok guys... I'm very curious to hear peoples input about this subject. I'm always trying to get the best results for time invested in my training, and supplemental training seems to be a grey area in terms of protocol and how it impacts our goals in YSB.
Please - by all means comment, criticize and make suggestions. I'm here to learn. Note: I have a lot of old injuries (hip, knee, neck) that keep me from doing some things that I used to do, so that factors into my program for sure.
Goals: My thinking is, obviously, in line with keeping YSB training the prime focus for daily training, therefore supplemental training should;
1. not sap too much energy thereby detracting from training YSB, but build endurance.
2. build strength without adding unwieldy size
3. not alter the particular musculoskeletal characteristic alignments of the desired YSB system being trained.
4. Add to overall fighting capability, resistance, toughness, agility.
5. Build strength and capacity over a long period of time, i.e. the next year I will be stronger and have better results in YSB than the year prior.
So here's my "variable" supplemental plan. I say variable, because I adapt it to my level of energy and my YSB training so I can keep going... if you miss a day, or do less it does not have a big impact overall. Less is more. For example, If I'm doing a lot of intensive standing strengthening I can easily back off the strength work, or skip legs if I'm feeling overly fatigued.
Conditioning: one to two days a week
1. Running hill sprints (my preference), or, mountain biking.
2. jump rope and Kettlebell swings (alternating circuit - 30-40 swings then jump for 1 min).
Strength: Protocol is "grease the groove" "GTG" (the "groove" meaning the neurological groove, training very low volume, heavy, but frequently - daily 4-5 days/week) Builds raw strength that can be converted to a more agile useful strength in YSB.
1. Weighted dips (very heavy) or KB presses 1 to 2 sets of 5 reps 4-5 days a week. If two or more sets, they must be spread out throughout the day, or just one a day.
2. Weighted Chin-ups or Rows done following dips.
3. Hold lying step with 53# kb (goblet grip) shoot for time as low as possible.
4. Core work: Plank, shoulder bridge (with 53#kb on lap), side plank. Try to get 5 days a week 1-2 minutes.
Cheers,
-M
|
|
eric
New Member
Posts: 27
|
Post by eric on Dec 3, 2014 8:10:35 GMT
Matt,
This is an awesome post! Your 1-5 list is especially helpful.
I have a lot of my own thoughts regarding this and I imagine many others do as well.
Over time, I hope we can all discuss the various methods employed by different folks.
While I would like to write more thoroughly on this in the future, for the moment, here are a few of the things I've tried over the years:
- Load-bearing
- Weight training
- Bodyweight exercises
- Kettlebells
- Saber training
- Running
- Wrestling
- Yoga
----
As follows is my general reasoning on the matter. I cannot promise that it will be correct for other practitioners, but it is where my thoughts presently stand regarding how I might employ supplemental methods to my own training:
YSB has isometric exercises for the entire body and a wide range of bodyweight exercises for the lower body. As such, while some may add supplemental leg training, there is already a ton of content available for punishing the legs. The upper body is a different story; generally speaking, the stronger you are, the more isometric strength you can exert and the more painful/beneficial the exercise becomes. Nevertheless, upper body growth can be slow if one only does isometrics. It is for this reason that I believe one can occasionally add a further stimulus to the upper body in addition to regular training.
I am presently of the opinion that 2-3 months a year of weight training is plenty for me. I split those months up. Usually I may do one heavy month in the summer and a month & a half in the winter. This way I can take one exercise and train it hard, make gains, but then not be bothered with it the rest of the year. Also, this allows me to gradually increase flexibility and reduce non-YSB structural fatigue throughout the majority of the year.
Recently, I've started doing yoga and I've found it quite beneficial. I try to do some at least every other day, but I am more serious about it in the Summer when 1. The body is warm and one can make faster gains in flexibility 2. As the heat makes me feel nauseous, irritable & fatigued, yoga helps to somewhat relieve these conditions.
Other benefits of yoga:
1. Greater range of strength and flexibility (the two are often confused. The latter is how much you can stretch your body, but the former is the ability to resist with strength in a stretched position).
2. Ability to stretch & relieve areas pained by years of imbalance (that is why I started doing it)
3. Greater awareness of how the body connects together
I love running and I used to do it seriously, but I haven't done much in recent years as I don't have a great environment for it (there is often air pollution, uneven pavement & too many people). Doing a non-stop 200-300 rep count with a kettlebell in swings or snatches is also great for cardio. Recently, we've been wrestling once a week and that's also fantastic for cardio, rooting & grip strength (plus you have the added martial benefits).
Load-bearing is great for structural strength and I'd argue that it can help with rooting strength as well. That being said, it's exhausting, extremely painful and too much can leave one with structural injury/tightness. I'm glad I did some of this before, but apart from farmer carries once a week for 6 weeks each year, I probably won't do more of this in the future.
Saber training is especially good for the hands, wrists and shoulders. It also allows one to train spiraling strength, which regular weight training cannot provide. I still consider saber to be a type of supplemental training. While it is closer to the empty hand in its motions, the mental content is still quite different and while it may be good for developing twisting strength & body motion, it would be hard to increase empty hand technical skill through training saber alone.
I would end this simply by saying that supplemental training can be great if one applies it appropriately. I see it as a tool that can be used in moderate doses to make one's YSB training & usage that much more effective. Still, in order to get the most out of the tool, one needs to reflect carefully on how the tool is best employed, when & if it can be discarded, what imbalances need to be addressed as well as how to avoid becoming infatuated with the tool itself. I'd also note that there are many untapped resources within the art for gaining development; so while non-YSB stimuli are great from time-to-time, the art itself often has the means to correct imbalances/weaknesses internally, though one may have to ruminate carefully about how to do this.
- Eric
|
|
snk
New Member
Posts: 10
|
Post by snk on Dec 3, 2014 18:16:08 GMT
About six months ago I started working with kettlebells a bit. What I discovered while using them for dead lift was that my core strength was suboptimal. In the course of the next few weeks and months, the dead lift had a profoundly wonderful effect. Not only did I feel more solid and connected throughout my body, but my low back pain disappeared. Intrigued, I also wondered how these gains would translate to bagua, particularly the lion system with its focus on the waist. Sure enough, in doing some drills I found that I was quite a bit more solid and strong through the practice.
While interesting, this isn't something I would over do. From my perspective, the kettlebells were a convenient way to shore up a physical deficiency. Beyond a certain point I would expect diminishing returns, to be superseded by the main practices. Fact is, if I hadn't been slacking off in bagua for the past year, my core strength likely would not have deteriorated. In my estimation, kettlebells (in my case, an exercise like the dead lift) are a useful supplement, but a regular, long-term circle-walking practice will probably accomplish the same thing, but over a longer period and with more benefits.
These are just some of my own observations and conjectures. Your mileage may vary.
|
|
mattc
New Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by mattc on Dec 22, 2014 19:52:24 GMT
Eric - I think there is a lot of wisdom in your thinking of training strength for 2-3 months a year. I think I may adopt that.
Here's why I really like that. YSB has more than enough for muscle endurance and general strength but adding actual muscle fiber is probably pretty difficult over time just with body weight and isometrics especially if you tend to be a more thin and endurance focused physique. So a period of time focused on building raw strength which can later be converted to a more agile explosive strength is totally valid and is in fact the same strategy employed by world class athletes. Build raw strength in pre-season and then convert it in training and USE it the rest of the year.
|
|
regn
New Member
Posts: 3
|
Post by regn on Dec 29, 2014 14:34:58 GMT
Very interesting question about what supplements YSB in a good way. My thoughts are maybe a bit different since i have a hard time
to add muscle to my body and are not super big or strong to start with. So take this as the thoughts from someone that came into the
art at 73 kg to 179 cm length. The first and best overall result i've got is to use the saber extensively, i gained a full size in
clothes and added much needed strength to my empty hand. A note here is that you also need to eat proper to get good results, but maybe that
is another thread?
Secondly, i have now eaten some humble pie and contacted a really good personal trainer at a gym. My goal is to do what most athletes do,
increase my strenght in general and maybe add some more bodyweight, if it is muscle. The experience so far has been very interesting to
say the least. My main goals where to learn the two olympic lifts, clean+jerk and snatch. Why did i choose those lifts?
1. They are difficult to do and will for a long time not load my spine to much.
2. It is fun to use a barbell and fun should be a part of supplemental training if you can!
3. They are widely thought to increase general atheletic ability and used by coaches in many different sports.
My first experience with my trainer left me exhausted and i did not leave her examine room at all. She did a bunch
of tests on mobility (good), stability (good), muscles firing correctly (so-so). Some of this i knew but some where
new. This has given me new insights into what i need to work on to correct my posture. Could i have gotten this in YSB?
Yes of course, but a little help here was good for me.
Results so far includes a lot less pain i shoulder, a more upright posture (great for a head-forward guy like me).
This transfers directly into YSB allowing me to train without pain in a more upright posture, all good things in my
book.
Finally, I have set goals for when i am "finished" with this and expect it will take approx 6-12 months to reach them.
I have no rush and will report back when i am done about my new findings.
Ok, that's it for this first post.
|
|
mattc
New Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by mattc on Jan 9, 2015 3:17:51 GMT
"My main goals where to learn the two olympic lifts, clean+jerk and snatch." Really great! That would be my personal first choice, if I didn't have such an abysmal functional movement score, due to past injuries. -I'm interested to hear your experiences. The Olympic lifts are phenomenal for general athleticism, speed and even range of motion. I used to do them quite a lot. I'm especially interested in your programming. I know a lot of athletes, like alpine ski racers (my backgroud), for example, use a low volume program to increase strength but not put too much bulk on which effects the sport's specific skills. To supplement YSB, there's got to be a turning point where too much musculature developed toward that starts to impact the YSB skills. So, I'm curious to know where you'll find the balance point. |
|
|
|
Post by Lisa on Mar 3, 2015 3:54:31 GMT
I just do isometric exercise with focus on tendons and ligaments. A different set of isometric for muscles.
Practicing the Bagua has limbered me.
I mainly do its isometric postures and circle walking n
I've had some injuries from vehicle accidents that wrecked havok with my back. So I do low impact movement to not annoy sciatic nerves.
Its working. I walk smoother. I glide. I can run when last year I couldn't. I can do sit ups without pain.
If I want a challenge while circle walking, I don a chain mail shirt. Or walk with weight vest.
Remember while circle walking, the goal is to be relaxed not tense or stiff.
|
|
mattc
New Member
Posts: 20
|
Post by mattc on May 23, 2015 21:15:36 GMT
I just started doing kettlebell Turkish get-ups. They are an incredible all around strength and flexibility drill, they can be done light and slow for recovery and injury prevention or heavy with volume for fight conditioning. Either way, form is critical and go very slow, focus on time under tension. It's a phenomenal compliment to YSB.
Monday Wednesday, Friday, I'm doing 3 sets of 3 very very slow focused on quality, with a 53# KB, take 30-60 seconds rest between sets. It's amazing. Highly recommended for recovery and injury prevention.
|
|
